Is Digital or Traditional Advertising Better?

Brandon Welch 0:00
If you are willing to put your personality front and center, if you’re willing to talk about things in a little broader sense, if you’re willing to spend your money entertaining, humoring, getting people emotional in some way, shape or form, what we call smiles, fist or tears. Yeah, and you do that over a long time, and you commit to them every day, they’ll wake up one day going, Oh, that’s my buddy. I don’t know him. Know him, but I know him. Yeah, I know what that company stands for. Yes, that’s the kind of person I want to do business with.

Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast. Today is Maven Monday. I’m your host, Brandon Welch, and I’m here with Caleb Agee, aka Salib Aji, if you’re one of our fancier clients, that’s a that’s a throwback, that is a throwback, different story for a different day. Yeah, same. But this is the place where we answer your real life marketing questions to eliminate waste and advertising, grow your business and help you achieve the big dream. Thank you so much to everybody who’s been listening and watching and sharing on social media. We are so humbled by the launch of this podcast. Already way more response than we ever thought was possible, and it’s just awesome. I’m having a blast.

Caleb Agee 1:13
Oh yeah, it’s fun. This is so much fun. It’s fun. This is like our

Brandon Welch 1:17
realization of the big dream. To help you realize the big dream and do it in this format, and this is the best way for us to help more companies cut through the clutter of growth and the confusion that happens around the advertising space. Yeah. So if you’re in the media business, or if you’re in the business business, this is the place for you. We’re helping grow companies. So what we’re doing is we’re dropping a new episode every Monday, answering the real questions that you have sent us and that we are encountering just in our agency, our growth agency here, Frank and Maven, with the businesses we get to interact with across the country, and we do have some really good questions today. What would you say is kind of the theme of today’s episode? Yeah. So

Caleb Agee 1:57
our questions today, they’re really centered around the choosing which type of advertising to do. So I think a lot of times that centers around what kind of media should I use, where should I put my money? All of that. And so we’ll jump right into it. The first question from Tara, she says her and her husband, actually, they lead an integrative health center in the Midwest, they focus on chiropractic care, functional medicine and regenerative regenerative medicine. Let me get that word out. Yeah, regenerate. Regenerative that everybody say it one time while you’re sitting in your car driving to work. Regenerative

Brandon Welch 2:34
citizen, regenerative medicine. So that’s helping people feel better, yes, without drugs or surgery when they can help it, right? That’s the idea. So chiropractor chiropractic, you’re out of energy. You go to this place, you feel better because they help you figure out your diet and the hormones and all these things that are probably causing you to feel bad. So what’s Tara’s question?

Caleb Agee 2:52
Okay, her question is, Should I be spending my money on digital or traditional advertising, which is a big, broad question, if I had $1 Yes, every time I heard that, every time we heard it, we would be actually, yeah. So, um, the first thing I think we need to, we have to do, before we move forward, is define the difference between digital and traditional advertising, because I think there’s a lot of blurred lines between the two, and we can what does that mean? We can talk about one, think we’re talking about the other. So let’s make sure we’re clear on that before we dive in. So first digital media is served digitally. Hey, it’s in the name. We’re talking about, Facebook, Google, tik, Tok, LinkedIn. We’re talking about all kinds of different digital medias that you can serve ads. Usually you have a dashboard that you can measure and place the ads down to the individual that sees it, that interacts with it, that clicks on it,

Brandon Welch 3:51
right, right. So delivered on a screen of some sort that is not a good old fashioned TV. Yep,

Caleb Agee 3:57
traditional would refer to the old media or mass media. So we’re thinking TV, radio, billboards, print, all of those are what we would call traditional media, right? And they’re mostly measured as parts of populations or a larger designated marketing market. So it’s

Brandon Welch 4:16
one way. It’s it’s not programmatic in the sense you can pick the audience, it’s whoever’s listening, you get listening. Yeah, the audience is the audience. And so, man, this is a this is probably the most common question that we get. And so we are going to answer the question because it is very often asked this way. And usually the reason it’s asked this way is because the moment most business owners come into contact with this conundrum, do I go traditional digital? It’s when something’s being sold to them, and they’re aware of, oh, wow, I have options, and I maybe did this in the past, or maybe I’ve never advertised before, and, gosh, this digital stuff looks cool. And so the people selling this kind of tend to fall into two buckets, and they’re either a local Re. Relationship based, like, salesperson that works for some newspaper or TV or radio station, yep, shout out to all of our friends. Hey or there, they could be sold, like, very remotely, like people calling them on the phone, or even self serve platforms like Facebook or even Hulu, or just these big there’s a there’s a million of these, like little digital agencies and so that. But that’s the moment, and so that seems like the choice. We are going to challenge everybody to think about a different question and a different way to look at this, but I am going to give you a spoiler. The different question we should be asking is not about the media, it’s about the human being. But let’s jump into digital or traditional. I have a short answer. Okay, all right, so if you want to always rely on advertising to bring new customers, like I have a advertising budget in my I’m always going to spend a certain percentage of my budget to get a new customer right? Things like Facebook and Google and really targeted media, and that is the strength of digital, is that’s probably your weapon of choice, because you’re thinking, run an ad, get a customer. Run an ad, get a customer. Yeah, and that is awesome. We all love that, right? Oh, yeah. We do a ton of that. Yes, we we brought, like, somewhere in the neighborhood of 60,000 customers to our clients. Like, customers to our clients last year with that style of advertising, right? And if you know how to do it well, and it is hard, it is very hard, to pull off that way, way, way, way more money gets spent without that result than is achieved. But if you know your stuff, and if you have the right message, and if you are giving them the appropriate call to action, and you’re managing that equation, and you have, you know, not, not a bunch of pressure from national advertising that makes that really expensive. That can work and it can be profitable, yeah, and that digital is the most reliable way to do that and repeat it, because you have the ability to find those customers. And so, so people ask, Why in the world would I ever want anything but that? Yeah, I just told you. The good side, the downside is it never, ever gets cheaper. You’re always paying something for that customer. Yeah. And if you think this really small group of people who are buying, or would buy, most companies right now, right there’s a really small amount of customers available Buying today, yes, it’s supply and demand, because it’s just way more expensive to reach those people like to the factor of sometimes 1015, 20 times more expensive to reach that person. Yep, versus reaching a bunch a bunch a bunch of people at once. Mass media, which is where traditional TV, radio, billboards, yes, sometimes print newspapers, think of people that that a bunch of people that use the same media all the time at the same time. That is phenomenally cheaper in the long run. So if you can afford to wait, and if you are willing to measure your advertising on a longer term basis, there’s a threshold where that starts to pay off in much, much, much bigger amounts and and while your advertising budget stays relatively the same, your growth happens faster, and we see that time and time again with customers that we we serve.

Caleb Agee 8:20
Okay, so just, I’m gonna boil this down really quick. Big, a big difference is, is targeting right on a digital platform I can, I can target differently,

Brandon Welch 8:30
very small audiences, but more expensive per person, more expensive per person, a lot more expensive

Caleb Agee 8:34
on traditional I’m gonna get the whole audience. I bought that radio station, everybody who happened to be tuning in at that moment, I bought all of their

Brandon Welch 8:44
ears you might reach, you know, 10,000 people at once for 100 bucks, right?

Caleb Agee 8:48
Okay, so what do you say to somebody who, who says, the radio station seems inefficient, it seems like a waste of money, because you just said there are only a few people buying today, right? It? Why would I talk to 10,000 of them when I on Facebook or Google? Could catch the last 20 people who are buying today?

Brandon Welch 9:11
Yeah. So it’s, it’s you’re waiting for your customer in the finish line, in the digital environment. Usually it’s really, really expensive to reach them there. Yeah. Why would? Why does radio and TV and things like that seem inefficient? Because the expectations are not set? Well, the messaging is out of alignment with how human beings actually think, feel and act, and it’s just a good old fashioned patience equation for most people, yeah, and there’s usually not somebody in the equation that is calling that shot beforehand. Yeah, most media salespeople are on a tight agenda to produce a certain amount of sales in a short amount of time. That’s just the industry and that there’s I was in it, that that’s what I was expected to do. Yeah, and it’s not a bad thing, because that’s what makes the world go round. But. That. And I’m not saying that they don’t usually they have a some sort of expectation building, but there’s not some person saying, Hey, here’s what’s going to happen after 12 months, after 18 months, and here’s what’s going to happen, more importantly, in the first four months. And it’s going to sound a whole lot like nothing. Yeah, you’re going to be writing these checks for big, big audiences, and you’re not going to feel a bunch of people just run in and buy from you, simply because that’s not really how the world works. Out of out of 100,000 people we’ll reach this week for a client on TV, there might be a dozen that are buying that type of product, yeah. And then you got to think, well, out of those dozen, how many are actually willing to switch providers? They may already have providers, right? And so it’s not that it’s not working, it’s just that you haven’t seen the results yet. And so that’s the expectation and the objective. One objective is find people who are buying now pay quite a bit of money for them, but that’s still profitable. That’s digital targeting, yep, and I’ve got to make some sort of offer or price concession to really get their attention, right? Yeah, because they’re looking at all the competitors by that point, if I haven’t worn them over yet, yep. That’s what we call the today customer, somebody who goes, I’m buying today, and I’m going to start shopping if I don’t already have a provider. I’m shopping heavily on price, convenience, hassle, and so you target them, and if you have the better offer, or you can make enough concessions in your delivery time or your profit margins, or sometimes you can win them with customer excellence, but usually that person’s going, I just got to buy the cheapest option. Now I know Tara, I know Gary, and I know they have an incredible quality service, and they have an incredible, like niche of spending more time with clients. And I know that they are so, so, so passionate about the results they get people. I don’t think they want to be the discount provider. Yeah, right. Um, so, so making the concessions in a busy marketplace for them is probably not in strategy. So go to the go to the mass media side, right? Yeah, if you are willing to put your personality front and center, if you’re willing to talk about things in a little broader sense, if you’re willing to spend your money, entertaining, humoring, getting people emotional in some way, shape or form, what we call smiles, fist or tears, yeah, and you do that over a long time, and you commit to them every day, they’ll wake up one day going, Oh, that’s my buddy. I don’t know him. Know him, but I know him. Yeah, I know what that company stands for. Yes, that’s the kind of person I want to do business with and our, frankly, Friday, a few weeks ago, we mentioned Randy and Dee, yeah, and just, just the sweetest, most genuine people you’ve ever met in your life. And we started with them, and they were doing, like, $0 like literally day they opened their doors. We’ve done every Yeah, amount of, you know, advertising and strategy for them, yeah. And of course, when you start, you got to have leads. So we start in search engines. Yeah, we help the bills. Yeah, we help to make that phone ring, right? That’s got to happen. But the more and more we go on, even though our team is phenomenally good at buying digital media that that cost per customer acquisition, the more competition that gets in that the more Facebook and Google just decide to charge more because they’re publicly they’re publicly traded, and that’s, yep, the way the world got

Caleb Agee 13:25
to make shareholders happy. Yeah, gotta make

Brandon Welch 13:27
shareholders happy. It’s like, 10 times harder to produce a lead for them than it was, you know, eight years ago, when we started, but a few years ago, we started taking, you know, this profit they’d made by building their business in a nice, controlled way. We said, Let’s make you famous in your market. And they’re in Kentucky, and we just, we put, we made these one liners for them, and showed off their southern charm, their good old fashioned way of looking at things. We made people see them real for who they are, and the amount of people that just now trust them and their salespeople and their name and when they finally enter this bot, this buying category, they buy, they sell windows, takes people a long, long, long, long time to come around to buying windows. Now they’re suddenly the one people just want to do business with. Yeah, they feel good about them. They already know them, and it’s not like this cumbersome, defensive process of picking people off of a search engine, and so with way less effort before their phone rings, and way less effort than before they get the sale, because they’re already trusted, and they’re actually growing right now, while that category home improvement, is down a lot, a lot like And it’s people who are don’t have that kind of charisma to them and that preceding reputation are really struggling to even beat a couple year agos, years ago numbers. So yeah, that’s the two things. It’s not traditional or digital. It’s when can I? I? Forward to wait for the result. And how big a result do I want? The bigger result that takes longer to get, like everything in life, right? Yep, is your traditional mass media commit to an audience. Show up every day. Rain or shine, Christmas, Fourth of July, Memorial Day weekend, yeah, Halloween, you’re on the air. Doesn’t matter what’s going on. You are making them like you, yeah, when they like you, when the time comes, right, they’ll skip the other competitors. They’ll skip that digital junk. Yeah, in their mind that point, they don’t need to see any that, because they’ve already got a guy. Yeah, and the phone, your phone will just in time. It can take a year or two to really hit any amount of reasonable speed, and some people are at a point in their business where they can’t afford for that, yeah. So that’s when we lean more into lead production, the today. Customer, yeah.

Caleb Agee 15:53
Today. Customer, yeah. So I’m gonna recap that in really short two censuses, which is, it depends on your establishment of your business. How far, how well established Are you? What’s your staying power? Do you need your cash flow? Do you need the cash flow today? Do you need to, you know, run payroll this next Friday and you need to get some jobs on the books? Absolutely. That’s today customer. You need them, and

Brandon Welch 16:20
you better have somebody who knows what the heck they’re doing with Google or Facebook. Yes, or you’re going to waste money on that too,

Caleb Agee 16:26
and it will cost you more to get each of those customers. But when you have the profit to reinvest in your company for the long term growth, when you have the ability, the staying power the establishment, yes, that’s that’s when you really want to focus on the tomorrow customer, because it’ll make everything better.

Brandon Welch 16:42
Makes everything better. You know what else it does? It attracts better employees. Over time, attracts

Caleb Agee 16:47
better customers too. Because you have to make customers concessions. Yes, when they come to you, they’re like, Please, let me. Let me pay you some money for what you do.

Brandon Welch 16:56
When they show up at your door ready to buy the way you want to sell, because you’ve been talking to them for two years, that is a home run moment. Yes, and these things happen subtly over time, but if you look back like we have with all of our legacy clients, like we’ve, we’ve we’ve got attorneys and roofers and contractors and doctors and these people who have just been doing this slow and steady thing all the time, and suddenly they wake up and they go, why am I so much bigger than all my competitors, and why is it so much easier than it used to be? That’s the right message compared or paired with mass media. That’s the right message paired with mass media. Let me say that again, yeah, and it’s not just a message, it’s a personality and it’s a whole brand thing, and we’re going to talk a lot about that in upcoming episodes. How you bond with your audience in an authentic way versus just being an ad. Yeah, we don’t have time for that today, but Tara, I think you have such an awesome company. I think there’s some really cool things to be done with some of the unique services you provide. Let’s target some people that have the exact pain points. Let’s give them an easy way to say, yeah. An easy way to say, yes, but let’s put more of that focus on you becoming this destination for people over time, because the more and more time goes on, people wake up and they need what you do, and they’ve already heard about you. They like you, they trust you. And if you have any sort of high value customer, you know where a transaction is worth you know, a couple $1,000 or more. Without a doubt, mass media is your secret weapon, if you can do it right.

Caleb Agee 18:31
Yeah, that’s good. Um, if you would like your question answered here on the podcast, you can email us at Maven Monday, at Frank and maven.com I will put that on the screen if you’re listening on the podcast, that it’s in the show notes, too. If you just want to click on that, you can

Brandon Welch 18:47
think there’s something I’m looking at marketing wise right now, I don’t know what I should do about this. People pay us a lot of money to do this stuff, right? Like, yeah, I’m not. That’s not braggadocious. That’s just, we have a really, really incredible team here. Yeah, and we have, like, we work with some really awesome companies, and we’re doing this because this is our mission, yeah. So we want to help you, no matter you’re big, small, somewhere in between. Shoot us a question. We’d love to answer it

Caleb Agee 19:13
here. Oh, yeah. So our next question is from Brian. He is marketing a very established retirement community called Maranatha village. They are asking about geofencing, which is an interesting we’ll call it a buzzword, sometimes even a shiny object, if we if we want to, sounds like nerd talk. It gets thrown around a lot. It’s confusing. I think we’re gonna try to diffuse that a little bit today. So break it down. It down. Here’s what he asks. We’ve spent some money on geofencing for several months with seemingly no results. Does geofencing really work? And what should I do differently? Wow,

Brandon Welch 19:56
yeah. So, yeah, this, this tends to be one of those like you. Tried it and got mad at the advertising world type products. We hear a lot of this, yeah. And so I want to break this down into three things. What is geofencing? How is it misunderstood? And who should use it and when, right? So worth noting. I actually it was actually my job to sell a product like this at one point when geofencing kind of started to become a thing, yeah, I was a digital ad sales guy. That’s at least how I got paid, and so I’m familiar with how it’s being presented to pitch, and kind of how it’s misunderstood, and what, what, what case studies did and didn’t work, right? Yeah. So, just to be really clear, geofencing, like true geofencing is the practice of, like, going on a dashboard on a map and drawing this, like, geographic area around an area that you want to do something with. You want people to see a message when they’re in a certain part of the world. Yes, specific, like, really precise. Like, think the mall, or think on the parking lot of one of your competitors, like, that’s how people think about it, or at an event, or at a concert or something like that, right? Yep. And so what technology allows us to do? Because everybody’s carrying around basically a location emitting device, among other things, it kind of allows us to see where people are and where the masses are. And in theory, we can do something to reach them when they’re in a certain spot. Here’s the kicker, especially as technology and regulation has matured, that has to be done, usually within an app, and has to be done with explicit user permission. Yeah, let me say that again, has to be done explicit user permission. So you as the iPhone holder have to say, Yes, I’m okay with this app doing this to me, and yes, I’m okay with people knowing where I’m at. And we’ve all seen those things pop up on our phone. We usually say, What? No, no, thanks, right? So doesn’t mean that’s everybody, but it’s it’s limited by a lot for that factor. It’s also limited by the idea that to really do any sort of push like forced advertising, yeah,

Caleb Agee 22:10
like pops up on the phone, on the home screen, like a text message, yes, that that has to be done from an app that has push notifications enabled, and, again, has those privacy of the geolocation. Can see where you are at all times or while you’re using the app or whatever. Yes, exactly. And then I had to walk into the space or out of the space. Yeah, all these

Brandon Welch 22:33
things had to happen. And that kind of leads me to, it has to be a certain app, and has to, like, there’s has to be a lot of things that happen because of that doesn’t mean it’s completely useless. It just means it’s misunderstood. And that kind of leads me to the second point, sure, back certainly in the launching days, and I’ve seen as recently in the last 12 months, people pitching this just the complete wrong way, and over promising what it can do. People got really excited about it because they thought, oh gosh, put this geo fence around my competitors, around this specific area, and Bing, people will see my ad and they’ll magically want to do business with me. Yeah, and to the point where, like we we take a lot of interviews on behalf of our clients about advertising opportunities in their area. It’s our job to know what’s out there, who’s pitching, and what they’re claiming, and just by asking a few questions, like, over the years, and I can think of a specific example in the last like, 12 months, when we start asking specific questions, well, how does that work, and what has to happen? And like, like, who would see it, and on what app, it becomes very clear that there’s this huge misunderstanding about what it’s capable of, even sometimes with the people selling it. Yeah, now I have a guy, a very good friend of mine, a true mentor and leader in my life, and he is a pro at this. His name’s Kent. So I’m actually going to include a link to Kent in the notes if you want to do geofencing right, and at the end of this, you determine that it’s a good thing for you. Kent, is your guy? He will, He will not be what I’m talking about now. But there’s, he’s very rare. There’s a lot of people over pitching this, yes, so if you’re getting this thrown in in some advertising pitch, you want to put your antennas up, because what it’s capable of is not what what most people kind of think it should be. And what happens is, this happens a lot. I think with car dealers, they think, Oh, I can immediately target my competitors, and somebody who’s magically on my customer’s lot gets pinged with my message, and they’ll just run across town and buy from me instead. Yeah,

Caleb Agee 24:35
yeah. So they’re across town, yes. Hey, do you want my car instead? Yeah? And they’re magically going to be like, Oh, that’s completely different than the car that I’m staring at right now. Or,

Brandon Welch 24:45
in the case of Brian, it was, I’m just going to take a wild guess, it was pitched as, oh, people who are, you know, in these areas where there’s a lot of your demographic, we’re going to magically reach them and show them an ad, and they’re going to want to come, you know, you. Sign up for your retirement community. Yeah. And so let’s just halt when, by the way, I urge you to do this with anything technology wise. Let’s just halt and ask, what is the human being doing? What is the dad gum human being thinking? Saying, willing to do in that moment? Yeah. And you think of these really big purchase products, such as something you’re going to probably choose once in your entire life, a retirement community. And the claim from seemingly the people who have you know led him in this direction for geofencing, are proposing that you know, people in this magic area, see your ad, and now they’re going to choose your as a retirement community. I don’t know anybody who makes decisions like that. Yeah, I certainly don’t. Right, no. And so you think, what is a, what is a display ad capable of? And it’s not that they’re useless, it’s just it’s not capable of that. So there’s this, just this. This is all this is all in the Maven method. This is why we wrote our book. We think pay for advertising. People automatically care about it, pay attention to it and do something about it. And that’s just not the way we work, right? So who should use it? It is. It is not like a completely useless tool, geo fencing. Think of big populations, think of big cities, and think of high retail customers, where somebody would respond to an offer like pizza, sure, or you’re at this water park, I’m going to make sure you see an ad tonight when you’re scrolling Facebook to come to my other water park, or you’re at this concert. And so one of the cool things geofencing can do is that in a certain area, it has record of the IP addresses and the device addresses of, you know, big groups of people who are, say, at a Garth Brooks concert. Well, maybe somebody who’s selling Kenny Chesney tickets wants to know those people, right? And so they over, time later, they are able to show them ads because they know those devices were in an area. That’s a good use of it, yeah? And you have big groups of people, yeah, it’s not likely a reliable source of influence if you’re a service based company, and it’s oversold in that category, and that’s, that’s unfortunate, because good money gets wasted, yeah, and then, you know, people end up unconfident in marketing, and it’s just confusing, right? Yep, that. Do you think that answer the question clearly, yeah.

Caleb Agee 27:33
I think, I think what, what I would point out, is the difference between the intrusive push notifications that we kind of said almost never happen. So almost, I won’t say never, but almost never. If I go to that concert, is my phone gonna pop up with you? Want some concert tickets,

Brandon Welch 27:52
you’d have already had to had an app downloaded. You would have had to agree to that push notifications and and and location settings and location settings on, which isn’t that doesn’t happen a lot, right? No, not really.

Caleb Agee 28:03
So that is usually what people expect. What actually happens is you would be served maybe display ads in in some other digital media. So we’re thinking Facebook or a Google Display Network. So you’re on a website, you’re starting to get these ads. Yes, you know, popping up

Brandon Welch 28:20
that, by the way, we’ve done that. Yeah, that’s, it’s a good thing

Caleb Agee 28:23
to do. But the reality is, it’s a little bit more passive. I have to be browsing Facebook or Instagram, or I have to be browsing a website with these ads on them, and then I would be served the option for, for, you know, the competitor, or the other option that we’re trying to we’re trying to give. So the odds of me sitting in your competitors waiting room, trolling Facebook and the algorithm, serving your ad at that moment, and then me deciding that you’re a better option,

Brandon Welch 28:55
better leave. Yeah, it just place is awful. I better go to the other but yeah, just it’s very

Caleb Agee 28:59
unusual. And I think really what this geo fencing is a broad term. Most digital medias, we just defined digital medias, most of them have geo geographical targeting built into them, right? Anyways, that is a standard feature magic associated with geo fencing. You can go down to, you know, zip code, a zip code half a half a mile. Sometimes it really depends on the media, but you can do that no matter what. I can target all of our city, or I can target half a mile around where I am right now. And the difference is the some, some people would say that all of that is geofencing, because I drew, yes, I drew a circle around our city, or I drew a circle around our building. Is that really the same as what people are expecting from it? And so I think that’s the question we need to make sure that you understand you’re asking, Where will they see this? Yes, what will happen? And just be armed with those questions. That’s what you should do differently. Is like, where are people seeing that? How does

Brandon Welch 29:58
this happen? And use your car. Common Sense, like, Has that ever happened to me? And maybe, if you’re not, like a good example of your target customer, ask 10 of your people, have you ever seen this happen and made you make a decision?

Caleb Agee 30:10
Probably gonna hear No, probably not.

Brandon Welch 30:14
So I will. I will land this plane, if I may, go for it. Back to the original thing we’re asking the wrong questions. Don’t start with the targeting. Don’t start with the technology and this magic, like digital AI driven thing that’s going to somehow manipulate people to do something that doesn’t happen. It doesn’t happen. What happens is a human being is already having a life with a gazillion things going on with a gazillion thoughts, feelings, emotions, associations and past knowledge of how your category works, and you need to meet them where they are. Who are they? What are their needs? Pains, hopes and fears. How can your product fill those needs? Pains, hopes and fears, and what’s the most reasonable next step they could take towards you? Have patience. My friends do it well, empathize, obsess over your customers in your life and their life, and they will choose you. Yeah, beautiful, good way to end it.

Caleb Agee 31:13
I think that’s great. So if you enjoyed this, I would encourage you to give us a like a thumbs up. Put something nice in the comments. We would love to hear it would help us mission so much. Yes, we want to. This helps more people get access to this marketing advice, and we would love to be able to put that in in their hands. So you can also subscribe. We’re on every podcast app, so if you’re if you’re watching on YouTube, go, go get on your favorite podcast lab and hit subscribe. We

Brandon Welch 31:44
have some Germany and Europe listeners twice now. Wow, crazy, right? That’s crazy. We must have geo fenced him. Sorry guys, thank you so much for listening. We’ll be here next Monday answering your real marketing questions, because marketers who can’t teach you why are just a fancy lie. Have a great week.