Are You Ignoring Half of Your Customers?

Brandon Welch 0:00
That’s the biggest opportunity, I think, that I see missed in America and in American sales and marketing, most of you are talking to extroverts because you are led or the sales part is led by an extrovert, preferencing person. There’s not this pause and going. There’s a lot of credibility to quickly pick up, if we just empathetically curtail our communication for a different personality type. You

welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast. Today is Maven Monday. I’m Brandon Welch, and I’m joined today by Caleb, e n t j, A G, you

Caleb Agee 0:32
could have, you could have snuck the e n t g, a G, or

Brandon Welch 0:36
e n t a g, n t h. I

Caleb Agee 0:38
don’t know if that works, but there’s something like

Brandon Welch 0:40
you’re gonna learn what an ENTJ is by the end of this podcast. Well, that’s your cliffhanger. But just in case you didn’t know, this is the place where we help you eliminate waste and advertising, grow your business and achieve the big dream. You know that if you’ve listened to the podcast one or 100 times, but we don’t talk about this often. How do we do that? How do we grow businesses? How do we eliminate waste in advertising? And how do we get to the big dream? We build bridges. You are a dreamer. You have a unique craft and a way of doing things. You are a doer. You showed up, you started a business, or you are on a mission to grow somebody else’s business, and that is a unique and wonderful thing. You’ve built this awesome thing. But here’s the deal, you are on an island, your business, your mission, your cause, is on an island humanity, the world of your customer, the masses, the people you need to transact with you so that your business and your mission becomes a thing is the mainland. You need that mainland to get to your island, so you can make your you can make their life better, so you can make money, and you can grow your thing, and you can fulfill your purpose. But most people don’t know that wonderful things await there because you’re an island, you’re out there, you’re not on there daily, right? Yeah, they don’t know how to get there. They don’t know why they would go to your island versus maybe another island. And so what you need is a good word on the street about this little island that exists off the mainland. You need a clear idea of exactly why you can make their life better. They need to understand that clear idea the people on the mainland, when they choose to go to your island, and they’re going to need some road signs to help them get there so they know how to how to find you. Yeah, those collective things, the word on the street, the idea of how you can change and make their life better, and the road signs to get there, that’s what we call communication. Just because your island exists does not mean anyone wants to go there. Could be the best island in the world, but if I never heard of it, or I have no reason to go, I won’t right? Yeah, so you need the bridge of communication to get them there. And 15 years ago, I was trying to build that bridge for my family’s company, trying to get people to my island right. And many of you have been on that journey, whether you’ve been in business for a day or, you know, a decade, you have been there, you’ve been in the struggle mode at some point of, how do I get more people here? And I had a lot of people selling me advertising, but I had zero people trying to teach me the bridge of communication, advertising is noise, and advertising is a very useful tool. It can be those road signs, it can be that word on the street, but if we don’t build the bridge of communication, nobody will actually get the big idea that they should come to our island. So after a lot of trials and errors, I finally learned how to build those bridges in the advertising industry. And then that’s when we started this courageous little consulting firm called Frank and Maven. And we helped other companies do that, and we figured out that when we help them do that, they grow their island population, their customer population, their revenues, their impact, their purpose, their locations, their footprint grows tremendously when you do that well and when you do those things in a certain order. And then not long after that, we started teaching that to the world, because our courageous little agency can help, you know, dozens of people, but we can’t help hundreds and 1000s of people, and there are, there’s a force in America that is the Small Business force, and it is the backbone of our economy. It’s the backbone of our purpose. It is, I believe, the vehicle to which all good things can be done at scale. And we just believe in that person, that entrepreneur, that dreamer, like we believe in nothing else, yeah, in terms of in terms of work, and so if you’re listening to this podcast, this is for you. We’re teaching you how to build those bridges so that more people come to your island because you do something special, you do something worthy, you do something that needs to be understood and desired as a desk. The Nation. And today we’re going to talk about not just advertising and marketing. That’s, uh, that’s a mainstay here, right, the tactics of marketing, but we’re going to talk about the essence of building that bridge. And if you’re a thriving business right now, chances are you built a bridge to your island like you’ve done that in some way, somehow. But um, that bridge only works for a certain amount of people. Once you built one bridge, you can grow your business. There’s there’s a certain amount of people that have an understanding about you. They know how you roll. They know how you price yourself. They know generally, the types of products and services you offer offer. And they’re taking that main land into your island, that taking that mainland bridge into your island. But there’s an entirely other part of the population that is not speaking the same language as you. And title of today’s episode was ignoring the other half of your customers by virtue of probably your founder or however you naturally roll and either prefer to sell or buy like you have a persona you enter the market with, yeah, and there’s an entirely different persona or set of personas that other people prefer. And we’re going to teach you how to talk to that other half that you’ve probably been missing, because that’s the secret to getting into 10 plus 15 plus percent market share. You can grow to a, you know, 5% a piece of your pie in your market, just by showing up and doing a few things, right? But if you really want to scale and you really want to be the category leader, you’re going to have to be communicating in multiple different ways. Yeah, that was a long intro to say. Today we’re talking about personalities, yeah, and how your business can appeal to all of the types of buying personalities that Yeah, could do business with you.

Caleb Agee 6:53
Yeah. And we’re going to use a fairly widely used tool to study people. Really, all communicators should be understanding people, and you’re probably a business leader or marketing executive of some kind, and so I think this also helps you with interpersonal inside your office. It’ll help you in a lot of different ways. So keep that, keep that logic in mind, because this will help you. Could help you at home with your marriage. This could help you with your kids, and, oh, man, there are so many applications and we’re gonna use this tool. We’re gonna obviously bend it toward marketing and advertising and how we how we would communicate with people, but also keep in mind the people in your life that would fit into each of these categories. So so

Brandon Welch 7:37
Myers, Briggs, if you’re not familiar, it’s the it’s the most widely used personality tool, I think, in the world. Yeah, I don’t know of another one that would have the database and the history. Yeah, originates from the 20s, the Carl Jung personality indicator type. Yeah. Chances are, if you’ve ever been to a seminar or ever had any sort of corporate training, you’ve heard of Myers, Briggs, MBTI, and it’s the four letters, and we’re not going to go too nerdy about that, other than just how it immediately applies to how you’re either selling or crafting your messaging in your business, yeah. But on the other side of this, if you get this right, because there’s there’s a personality type that most companies get right, there’s another personality type that there’s a whole group of people begging for people begging for people to communicate to them in this way. And if you’re the one that figures that out, you will just be instantly preferred, and your reputation will, will, will scale beyond what you what you thought possible with your current way of doing it. Yes, the promise. So

Caleb Agee 8:34
Brandon mentioned my, you know, Personality Type Indicator. Usually it shows up in some combination of letters. So if you’re unaware of this, you know, he said I was an Ian TJ, I actually, fun fact, it’s kind of a range, right? You get a percentage on either either side of it. We’re so you’ve probably heard those before, and you’re like, if you don’t know, you’re like, I don’t know what those letters mean. We’re not going to dig into all of what those letters mean, 16 different combinations. Yeah, if you want to, you can go take the test on 16 personalities.com there’s a link

Brandon Welch 9:05
popping up right now. Thanks Nate, the camera guy and the camera guy really in front. Yeah,

Caleb Agee 9:10
these are preferences, so everybody can do both. This isn’t like a It’s just how you will more naturally be inclined to lean, and that’s what it measures, kind of a percentage like you lean more for the first stop we’re going to hit is extrovert and introvert, yes, and this is going to be a big one that we’re going to dig into. And so first, yeah,

Brandon Welch 9:34
one last disclaimer. Okay, one last disclaimer before we get to the meet. Okay, we’re using Myers Briggs as it’s the largest database of actual humans. There’s over 100,000 people that MBTI has in this database. What we’re doing is studying when people get into this. Myers Briggs measures communication style, like what your preference and styles of communication. And your decision making style, and then how you process information, and that’s kind of what these four letters point to. Okay, so big idea, you are probably speaking to one kind of dominant personality style, and we’re going to teach you the other side so that you can align your marketing communication for that. So the four letters take us through those,

Caleb Agee 10:24
the the four combinations, combinations of letters with with MBTI, we have, uh, extrovert and introvert, sensing and Intuit. That’s your i You’re an E, sensing, yeah, I’m an E. You’re an E, for sure. I actually am right in the middle on the on those two. I can trend introverts, sometimes sensing an intuition that’s S and N for intuition, thinking and feeling, is T and F, and then judging and perceiving. So each of these pairs goes together and you get kind of a score. The duality here, you lean towards one or the other, one way or the other, or maybe close to the middle, and you can kind of be both. So a

Brandon Welch 11:00
good way to look at that is at your in your most natural state. Which one are you going to lean into? We’re gonna explain what each of which one of those are, but it’s not a prescription that you’re this way and you’re only this way. It’s just what’s more likely, what muscles are you most like?

Caleb Agee 11:12
And more importantly, what’s what muscles is the person you’re communicating with more likely? And this is what we’re really focused on, is not ourselves. You can use this to help your self, understand yourself, but the big thing is understanding other people. Because good communication happens when we move in the direction of the person we’re communicating to. It’s not me communicating to Brandon the way I like to be communicated to. It’s me communicating the Brandon to the way he wants to be communicated to,

Brandon Welch 11:40
because when you remove friction of communication, big things happen. They happen faster, they happen more joyously, and they happen in a way that produces a wonderful reputation and working relationship.

Caleb Agee 11:52
Yes, so we’re going to dig into the first set of dualities here, which is extrovert and introvert. And

Brandon Welch 12:00
this is the biggest one any of you could use right now. I’ll guarantee it. Yeah, this

Caleb Agee 12:03
is this one. What’s nice is these two labels at face value. They’re easily their connotation is already probably what you’re thinking in your head. This is really how how people think or process information. It’s where they do it. It’s either with whether they process it out loud dialog that would be an extrovert, or inside this entire podcast, like this entire Yeah, or inside their head first, and then it’ll show up out loud or in a different form. And so couple of

Brandon Welch 12:36
qualifiers, you might have heard of introvert, extrovert, you go, Oh, he’s an introvert because he’s shy and he doesn’t talk much. And it’s like, that can be true. Yeah, that may be a sort of a default disposition of somebody who’s introvert, preferencing, however, some of the it’s, it’s where, it’s where you process information, it’s where you recharge your batteries, yes, and so I’m gonna venture to say most stereotypical front men, sales guys, like ambitious guys who jumped out started their own company, were never afraid to go out on a sales call or whatever. Are never afraid to just talk at will that that tends to be. A lot of your people that step out and start a company, doesn’t have to be but the ones we the ones we think of and the ones that are probably, I guess, more poised to lead sales and would probably be listening to this podcast because of the more marketing minded folks depending with a very broad brush there, but I’m saying it’s very natural when we talk about the topic of sales and going and going and getting customers to think, oh, that’s an extroverts job, and it probably is a place where an extrovert could thrive more naturally without training. However, the most brilliant people, the most brilliant speakers that I’ve ever met, and the most really accomplished salespeople I’ve ever met are often very well trained and skilled and like focused introverts who just learned the learned, and frankly, they learned it better. They’re careful with words, and so therefore they ring truer. Right? This is not me. This is the opposite of me. But they chisel things in a way that is that are, that are really good. So it doesn’t mean that you’re, don’t, don’t hear me wrong that you are you have to be an extrovert to be a salesperson or business leader. But I’m saying most naturally, businesses that are aggressive at sales are probably led or filled in their sales teams by extrovert preferencing people, and that is how, that’s what we think of sales. We think of come to my house, sell me something, or come to my office. We’ll talk about it. Yeah, there are certain ways to be excellent at that. But here’s the thing, 50.1% of the population is extrovert preferencing, meaning they would be fine to join you in that external exchange of dialog. The other 49.9 is introvert preference. Interesting, yeah, meaning they would prefer not to do that. What would they prefer to do instead communicate?

Caleb Agee 15:09
You know, in written communication, a lot of times they want to have time to wait and process, because a dialog back and forth does not give them the time to properly think through what they want to say, and they want to articulate it clearly and carefully and then give it to you back all at once. And so you can, you can typically spot an extrovert, because they’ll, you know, start the discussion. They’ll, they’ll talk.

Brandon Welch 15:36
These are the people saying, Yes, come on out to my house. Yeah. They’ll, yeah, I’ll be there Tuesday. They

Caleb Agee 15:39
Yeah. They they want the dialog. They want face to face conversations they’ll have, you know, 25 passing ideas on the way to the one and the first 24 ideas that they passed by, they were not intending for anybody to grab or care about. It was literally just them processing out loud those they acknowledged in their brain that all 24 of those were bad ideas. But, you know, yes, and they bounce

Brandon Welch 16:06
it out in the room just to see how it says, Yeah, this is, is

Caleb Agee 16:10
this good? And they had no intention of that being the idea. But then maybe it leads them to the last idea, which was the final good idea, yes. And so that’s how you can kind of spot an extrovert. It

Brandon Welch 16:20
doesn’t matter if you’re selling homes or home improvement or legal services or anything like that, or even in B to B world, it’s like that person who showed up ready to do that needs that dialog. And definitely, you know, either learn or put an extrovert with them. Yeah. But the other side the introverts, introvert preferencing folks, which is the, which is the ones the prospects we probably, at large, get less excited about because they’re not meeting us. Of that energy, they’re like, Wait, hold on, slow down. Yeah, and those get labeled in the sales world as tire kickers or cold feet or man, put, put a, put a guy who’s a very talented salesperson in front of that person. They’re crippled because they don’t their superpower is lost on that person, right?

Caleb Agee 17:04
Yeah. And they’re probably, in a lot of ways, shooting themselves in the foot because they’re selling the way they want to be sold. Yes, and, and so an introvert is going to wait to initiate discussion. They’re going to an interesting thing is, they’re going to give monologs. An introvert will wait and process all of their thoughts, and then they will talk all at once, because they they’ve decided they’re not waiting for a bounce back and forth. They’re going to decide what they think inside their head quietly, not with their mouth, and then it’s going to show up all at once, out loud, or in a long email or in a text message, you’re going to see it just show up in a monolog, as we would say. So

Brandon Welch 17:46
yeah. And the extrovert, who the uneducated extrovert, just hears them finally talk, and they want to start jumping in, jumping and interrupt their sentences. Oh yeah, I know that. Oh yeah, my sister did that. Oh yeah. And it’s like, that is death to an introverts train of thought, right? Yeah, the introvert is like, okay, it’s now my turn to talk. Mute you. Mute you, and can I talk? Yeah, they’re probably not naturally the most loud people because they are, well, frankly, they’re smarter than that. They’re, they’re they’re emotional intelligence and their communication style and sort of the way they see the world is processed and polished, right? Yep. So how do you know? So the thing to do, we’ll get to the cut to the end for real quick, and then we’ll come back and go right back through it. But the goal is to know when you’re talking to an extrovert and to match their communication style, or when you’re talking to an introvert and match their communication style, we’re gonna give you some rules for that in a second. But how do you know early on when you’re talking to either one of those particular types? Yeah,

Caleb Agee 18:53
I think you can. The first one is actually eye contact. I have a personal theory. Nobody has written this. Extroverts look at your mouth. Yeah, I do. Introverts look at your eyes, yeah. I have noticed that that is, that is a Caleb original theory that’s not documented anywhere, but you heard it here. Copyright, trademark, no, I’m just kidding. Extroverts, look at your mouth, because that’s where they want to process. Introverts are looking your eyes, and, in theory, looking into your brain, because that’s where they think you’re going to process things. It’s creepy, don’t you? And and so that’s actually a first giveaway for me. So if

Brandon Welch 19:33
somebody notices your eye color, you might be talking to an introvert. Yes, there’s one. There’s one clue right before that I would put people who are more who have reached out on your website with with text or form fills, not as a not as a hard, fast rule, but they’re probably more introvert, preferencing, more introvert, comfortable,

Caleb Agee 19:53
especially if you were open at that at those hours. Yes, obviously, if they filled out a form in the middle of the night, that’s different. But if you were, if it. Was daytime business hours, and they chose to fill out the form instead of picking up the phone to call you. It’s pretty good indication of one or the other there. Yep,

Brandon Welch 20:06
and they’ve they, we tend to think of leads as just I need it. Now I went and I clicked the button that almost never happens on websites. They’ve actually had your website saved for a number of weeks, and they finally get around to processing their thoughts, and then they’ve looked at all the pages, and then we track this a lot of times. They they’re consulting review sites, and they’re doing all those things that they what are they doing? They’re internally processing. But you’ve got a lead in the middle of the day that came via website or a text or a written communication thing, probably an introvert. Yeah, if they called first thing in the morning, probably an extrovert. So just just right there, just by sourcing, maybe, maybe you as a leader, you go, you know what? I have somebody who’s really good with details and is really good at texting and punctuation and bullet pointing and doing things I might, I might toss my text based leads to that person, and I might hand the phone off as fast as I can to an extrovert when they call. Yeah, that’s just a if you got multiple people on your sales team. Yeah, both are good, by the way.

Caleb Agee 21:15
Yes, both are good. And like we said, there’s less than half of a percent of a difference in this dynamic. And so some things you can do, extroverts are going to prefer spontaneous verbal information and feedback and active participation in the process. And so you want to make sure that you give them the ability to verbally spar with you, and that that’s a really powerful thing. So one obviously, call them that in marketing and sales, you’re going to call them that should be your number one thing. Um, if you’re only emailing and texting your customers, you’re missing that extroverted half of the population you you’re missing out on speaking to them the way they want to be spoken to. It’s

Brandon Welch 21:59
funny. I think the person who was who would be excellent, if they were excellent at texting and written communication, I think they would be so quickly successful, like if you mastered that art. Because that’s the that’s the lacking art. It’s usually the harder one to pull off. It’s the harder one to pull off, and it’s the, it’s the people that are less naturally attracted to being sales and customer service people, right? Because they’re like out of people, yeah, not my favorite thing, right? I’m paying with a broad brush, but I’m just saying in general positions that force them to be in unpredictable situations with people just not comfortable, right? So therefore most people are expert preferencing, and they, they suck at those things. They they don’t get back with the right information. They don’t organize it well. They don’t have a good writing brain by default, right? They would rather just pick up the phone call so. But if you’re, if you are one of those rare like companies that is really, really good at the process behind the scenes information, and you are really good at texting. I’ll bet you’re thriving amongst your competitors, because you’re talking to us a large group of people, and there’s fewer competitors that do that. Yeah,

Caleb Agee 23:09
um, big thing for extroverts show up with a strong verbal presentation. They want you to talk and speak well, flashy it, it will impress them, because that’s what they expect. That’s how they would do it if they were in your shoes. So you should bring it the way they would do it, bright

Brandon Welch 23:29
colors, slick graphics, props in your presentation, beautiful folders, like all that sort of stuff is like crack to an extrovert, yep,

Caleb Agee 23:42
so and then shiny object leave room for them to ask lots of questions. So if your sales presentation is one sided, an introvert might be okay with just receiving all of that information, but you need to figure out very quickly what they are, and if they’re an extrovert, you want to allow them to give you feedback back, it’s a

Brandon Welch 24:02
very good move to say, is there anything you’re curious about so far? Yeah, what have you liked best so far? Or anything that surprised you? Like, those are extrovert cues inversely. And this has actually got me in trouble a couple times. I didn’t I didn’t properly associate that. I was in a room full of introverts when we were making a presentation, and I was like, What do you think? What do you like the best? And afterwards, I learned that they thought I was manipulating it like that was the most uncomfortable thing. And now, dude, I was just, I was looking for dialog, right? I was being selfish in my my communication style. Now a pause and go and read the room for just a second, probably, if there’s somebody wearing more muted colors and they have a reserved way about them, probably, if they showed up on time, probably if they you know, and we’re taking detailed notes where you were talking, that’s a cue to not open that dialog. You might be kind and say, Are we good so far? And I’m just gonna give you a nod and say yes, and because they’re processed. Session, go and ask them to tell you what they think yet,

Caleb Agee 25:01
yep, what they will do. So if we switch over to introverts, obviously we’re initiating discussion. Text and email are always powerful. Here, they will also like written proposals and paper. Give them Yes, put it on the screen, but hand them a piece of paper that they can take with them so that they can review it at their at their leisure. Later on, they can process all of this information, send them the slide deck. And so I’m thinking follow up emails or text messages with with attachments, physical pieces of paper. All of this is great for introverts, because they heard what you said, but they also want to process it after the fact. What would

Brandon Welch 25:44
even be more pro is, before you ever have the meeting, send them an agenda. This is what we’re going to cover. If there’s anything you’d like to make sure that I bring extra information on please let me know that’s an email that gets to them a day before.

Caleb Agee 25:56
Yes, you go out there, and then you will ask them for their thoughts and feedback. You ask them questions, but you don’t do it verbally, face to face. You do it with that follow up email after the fact. You say, Hey, I know we covered a lot yesterday or a couple hours ago. Did you have any questions? And they will carefully craft their response, probably in the email or the text message, and that’s your chance to show up for them in the way that they would like to be absolutely

Brandon Welch 26:25
with. And we’re kind of bouncing around, but it goes even all the way. Think about from marketing. All of the things that could speak to an extrovert would be big call buttons, big like flashy images on your website, bubbly person on the phone that talks about the weather and chats with them for 90 seconds before they say, Now, how can I help you today? Hand it off to a, you know, macho, flashy, fun joke telling salesperson that brings them in and, you know, turns on the music in the room and has a big presentation, right? That’s those are all things that add up to an extrovert, and then they’re gonna, they’re gonna shake hands. They’re not gonna write anything down. They’re gonna shake hands. They’re gonna come back. They might just say yes on the spot. That person might because they don’t have anything else to process they’ve said yes. Or if they have to talk to their spouse or their introverted partner, or whatever, they’re gonna maybe come back and but they’re gonna call you and tell you the good news, I think we’re going to go with you, right? That’s how an extrovert works. Introvert. Don’t put a call button or have the call button, but also an equal weight, have how our buying process works, all the things you should consider, reviews, pictures of our past work, guides, downloads, color samples, case studies, videos of other people who have gone through the process, all of the detail information. And then once they reach out on the website, you put them with a person who was the English major in college who can say, thank you so much for reaching out. I understand that. Bullet Point, bullet point, bullet bullet point. This is what you want to accomplish. And they’re going, Yeah, somebody heard me right. They’re seeing it and writing and then give them options. Have maybe a little bit more patience than the Trigger Happy extrovert. I’m talking about the extreme ends of the scale here. But multiple follow up emails. We’ve confirmed your appointment for three o’clock on Thursday, just as a review of our conversation, this is what we’re going to be covering. If there’s anything you’d like you know us to become prepared for, please let us know. Here’s a picture of the guy or gal you’ll be meeting with, and then another reminder email. Today is your appointment. I’m looking forward to seeing you. And in between, maybe you’re sending them all those things you mentioned, case studies and ideas and things, so that they come to that meeting prepared. And then when you get there, these are the people that need to leave behind. So, yeah, it’s going to be a thing that you’re going to learn in time. And it’s not like you drastically, just like try to, you know, change everything and chameleon into this person. But what I want you to do is train your call people, your sales people and your customer service people to say, this is probably who I’m dealing with, and I’m going to make sure that I’m going to adapt to their communication style.

Caleb Agee 29:19
Yeah, yeah. So that is more or less the extrovert, introvert dynamic. What you want to do is just learn how to start seeing those clues and cues. And in your marketing, you want to make sure that you can you can really speak or create opportunity for both to communicate the way they would want to be communicated with, and if you also you could look around your office. You could look around at the people you are interacting with in business. It’s kind of the same things we just talked about. Extroverts are going to want to brainstorm you. Introverts are going to want an email with an agenda, and they want to know what’s going on before and after. Extroverts are going to want to bounce the ideas back and forth. The introvert may have just as good like ideas cannot

Brandon Welch 30:14
be better. Will have the best and most executable idea. I promise it will be well

Caleb Agee 30:18
formed. It may not be the best idea I would that’s true intelligence or good ideas. I don’t think ranges, yeah, I think, but they will have the most well thought through idea, because they’re gonna wait probably till after the brainstorm. They’ll sit there and soak it all up, and then they’ll send an email later and drop the mic super pro move. So

Brandon Welch 30:37
if you’re an extroverted salesperson, and you’re pretty sure you just had an interaction with an interaction with an introvert, and you walk away going, golly, I didn’t get any signals from that cold fish. Right? What you want to do send an email recapping what you’ve talked about. Say this is the person who will have questions afterward. If I didn’t cover anything, please, here’s my cell and here’s my email. Please reach out to me, and then you’re going to want to watch special attention, because I guarantee a two because I guarantee you, 2448 hours afterwards, that person’s going to have concluded at that point how they feel or what they’re thinking next. And so the follow up text, follow up email is actually really appreciated by that person, by that introverted person, by the way, if you weren’t sure in the dialog, maybe, maybe an introvert preferencing person was really good at, you know, bubbly exchange, because that’s a skill that they’ve mastered, or whatever. Yeah, muted colors, reserved, styling, refined. Um, uh, expression. Those are all points of good clues you’re dealing with introvert, not, not exclusive, but you very rarely will find an introvert wearing the flamingo shirt in the room. Interesting. Yeah, that’s a Dr Richard grant made that point. He was, he’s like, one of the most renowned experts on MBTI, okay, we’ve spent a lot of time on introverting, extroverting, preferencing people, because that’s the biggest opportunity I think, that I see missed in America and in American sales and marketing. Yeah, most of you are talking to extroverts because you are led, or the sales part is led by an extrovert preferencing person, and it’s just, there’s not this pause and going, hmm, there’s a lot of credibility to quickly pick up, if we just empathetically curtail our communication for a different personality type. That’s the other half, right? That’s the That’s the promise of the title. Yeah, there are three other letters. We’re going to cover one set in this episode, in the next episode, we’re going to cover the other two big ones. Okay, this next one is somewhat straightforward, but this is a part one and part two episode, because, man, if you master this, you you just you increase your emotional intelligence and your sales intelligence and your communication intelligence by so much, and that’s the biggest leverage. And a yes or a no and choosing your company, yeah.

Caleb Agee 33:03
So the other set that we’re going to cover today is sensing and intuitive. And so that’s the s or the in, because we had introvert covered the i So on this. They do intuitive. They go the I in, and that’s what you would get a letter. There are actually about 9.2% more intuitive people than sensing, or they’re actually calling it observant, which is a much better descriptor word than intuitive or than the sensing type. So

Brandon Welch 33:33
sensing was more 1920 language. Yeah, it’s kind of updating the tool. It’s

Caleb Agee 33:36
hard to interpret what they mean just with the word, but so think observant and intuitive. And so the best way to see this is, this is the problem solving part of their personality that’s kind of the simple at its simplest form, is, how do they solve problems? So a sensing or observant person will focus on the facts, the specific problem, the example they’re going to talk about, the deliverables, the actions, the next step they’re going to think about all the little stops along the way, the nuts and bolts, the path. And so the way you speak to the sensing or observant person is to give them all the steps, the granular details, every little detail that it’s going to take. If you this on your website. How this shows up is you give them literally every part of the process, or in your sales process, when you when you’re about to sell them, you tell them about the install process, like what’s going to happen when you actually perform the service. So they they have no surprises. They see the clear picture every step along the way, and they see that you have a clear picture, and they will respect you for that.

Brandon Welch 34:42
Oh, man, they respect that and appreciate that so much that a sensing person will like, I’m going to say this speculatively, but their biggest fear is making a mistake. They want to do it the right way, the structured way, because trial and error. There is not their not their virtue, that’s not their superpower.

Caleb Agee 35:03
They don’t they don’t want to. They want to make sure the path is clear, that every little stepping stone is completely obvious along the way. Yes, so for a sensing person, give them specific and realistic data prove that the steps have a reason, that there’s a there’s a purpose to the process. And I think on your you know, in different forms, it’s literally just make the process clear. So by contrast the intuitives, which is slightly more majority of the population, they are going to like overviews, summaries, they’re the kind of people that don’t want to read the whole book. They want the short summary version they want, like they want the Cliff Notes version of it. They’re going to look for explanations of patterns, and they’re going to talk about intuitives. Now, intuitive okay, yes, they’re going to jump to the end of this. Yes, this process. So intuitive

Brandon Welch 36:00
will fill it, fill in the blanks. If you stop to give them every detail they have, they have about a 14 second looping, you know, stream of consciousness, and you’re out of that, right? They’re like, yada yada. This sounds like, you know, this sounds like white noise. It’s the Charlie Brown teacher, the want will want one, yeah, it’s like an intuitive says, I can find those details if I need them, and I don’t think I’ll probably

Caleb Agee 36:24
need them. Yeah, right, right or wrong. They’re they’re taking, they’re taking the little bit you gave them. And they’re like, Oh, cool. I

Brandon Welch 36:30
pretty much see the finish line. Now, reckless and intuitives are more reckless. We’re

Caleb Agee 36:33
both intuitive, by the way, so we’re not, you know, we’re not throwing shade at somebody else, but, um, they’re going to jump to the end and say, Oh yeah, I’ve got it. You know, give me, give me that I got it. I figured it out. And these are

Brandon Welch 36:46
the people that miss the very, very important instruction in the IKEA. And then they have to go back and take the holding thing apart, because they were like, Yeah, I get how this

Caleb Agee 36:53
thing. And they put that bracket in wrong, and they have to undo the whole thing.

Brandon Welch 36:57
The sensors errant. Okay, yes, yes.

Caleb Agee 37:01
Yes. So to work with intuitive, intuitives, you want to give them a chance to do it their own way. Give them a chance to they’re not even building a path. They’re like imagining a path. It’s, it’s a figment of a path along the way. You want to give them the big picture so that they can build a framework around it and then give them appreciation and feedback for their leaps outside of the boundaries the impracticality. You want to help them feel good about that, just in maybe in the opposite way for a sensing person, you would want to give them feedback in a good way, positive reinforcement for being so detail oriented. If

Brandon Welch 37:40
you are an intuitive, empathetically, like trying to model and be like a good communicator with a sensor, a very good thing you can say, say, Hey, have I ever left any details out? Is there anything any other steps you are curious about? Because the worst thing intuitives do is that they think, ah, that doesn’t matter to me, so it won’t matter to them. And they go, oh, yeah, we’ll and we’ll just get that done at that point. And it’s like the sensor goes, Wait, wait, wait, what do you do? I missed that. I I can’t even, you know, yeah, be comfortable moving on, because I don’t know what actually is going to happen. Okay, yeah. And so does that make sense? These are good. See what I just did there. Yeah. Does that make sense? Are you with me? Just want to make sure I didn’t leave anything out.

Caleb Agee 38:29
Yeah. Intuitives will be in danger of saying or thinking, Oh, this isn’t that hard, because the semblance of the path is ambiguous to them, and it can be as long or as short as they want it, they actually don’t know. They just say that because they’ve jumped from 10% to 90% in their brains in the matter of four seconds, whereas the sensing actually knows. They literally know all the details it’s going to take, and they know how hard it could or can be to get there. And so the gift

Brandon Welch 38:57
of a censor is that they will not make mistakes. And let me just back out of Sales and Marketing for a second on your team, you need to find your sensor. And probably the biggest friction amongst communication happens between sensing and intuition. You got a broad stroking idiot that is just out here, like throwing out big ideas and the sensor goes, I can’t get on board with that. Yeah, but the sensor, and rightfully so, the sensor is like, That sounds dangerous and it is dangerous. Okay, so intuitives, hear me. You need to instead of feeling bottlenecked by a sensor who wants to stop and review the rules and review the review the actual action steps you need to embrace that because they are trying to save you from the worst part of your strength there, yep, the inverse weakness of your strength, right? Yep. And so this would be for my sales people. This would be one. Your person, probably who is setting up the appointment or customer service following through, like those tend to be rock star customer service people, and you know, admin pros that take the information and set up the appointments and arrange the schedules and all of that. So embrace them. Okay, yeah, on our team, that is so so, so true. I would be dead in the water without we have some extremely strong like sensing people here, and they,

Caleb Agee 40:29
they save, they stay together, yeah, for sure. And so, going back to the intuitive, if you are in marketing and sales, the key actually, is to not, I’m putting this in air quotes. Bore them with the details. If you hear, if you hear them allowing you to skip a bit of a Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s, that’s usually what it sounds like, yeah. If you hear them, allow you to skip part of the process. Do that. That’s okay. Move along. Pass jail and go straight to Yeah. If you’re a sensing salesperson, you need to listen for that signal and be okay with skipping some of the stepping stones along the way. And that’s, that’s probably the way to to do that on, on the inverse, if you’re an intuitive salesperson, and you would typically be like, you know, it’s like that. The cliche would be like, one thing led to another, and it’s like, it’s like, you go from here to there just in four seconds, one turn of phrase, and all of a sudden you’ve jumped from the beginning to the end. If you pick up that, it’s a sensing person, and they’re like, look, have this confused look in their face. You need to go back and lead them to the one thing led to another. Because it’s not one thing to another. It was, it was 200 things led to the other thing, and you need to make sure you lead them down that path. Yeah. So

Brandon Welch 41:46
in marketing, I would say it’s probably a balance. The intuitive is going to respond to more analogy, type Geico, type advertising. That’s like, you know, when you’re in a horror movie, you make awful decisions. It’s what you do. When you want to say 15% on car insurance, you switch to Geico. It’s what you do that actually is a really well balanced statement, as I said it out loud. But the analogy there the intuitive would, would just intuitives are like Seinfeld folks that they like dry, you know, implicative type of humor, right? I’m not saying you can’t love Seinfeld if you’re a sensor, but just just my observation, and then, you know, more spelled out things and your marketing communication would be sensing. So have both. Yeah, we do this. Randy and D’s campaign comes to mind. We do this often. We put husbands and wives in or or a duo, a dining duality. You could do have to be male female, but often that works. Well, we did it, and with Nick and Jamie and all those people, and you have a big, boisterous personality and then a balanced, sensing personality. By the way, the best movies, scripts, storylines have all have characters that have intuitive versus sensing and like different personality types that balance each other out, that is chemistry and that is naturally entertaining. So um, anything we left out on sensing versus intuitives? Yeah, well, I think

Caleb Agee 43:20
um at work, just make sure you’re paying attention to who these people are. I’m trying to bring this back, not just to marketing, but to your daily life. At home, pay attention to these the sensing person. You need to tap into them to get the process done. Get especially even writing processes out where you’re a little bit ambiguous, ambiguous. You need to make sure that you ask that sensing person, hey, where do we have gaps in this process? And they will find them, or they already know, actually, they already know where they are. And then a sensing person, you could tap into the intuitive person, usually in the problem solving or brainstorming phase, they’re gonna like a lot of when you need new or creative ideas, you’d be like, Hey, I was thinking, we need to do this and then let their intuitive brand go. And they will, they’ll flutter around and and find 14 different little jumps to the

Brandon Welch 44:15
end. And you know, when you find a dead end and intuitive will probably find some alternate path through the woods,

Caleb Agee 44:20
yeah, and that’s fine, let them do that, and then sensing, grab it back and say, Cool, I found where you’re going. Now I’m going to lead us with every little steps it’s going to take us to get there.

Brandon Welch 44:31
The intuitive is exhausted by the end of that. They’re like, cool, I did my thing, and then, yeah, they took it all the way. So you were listening the first time, because my path the second time is probably not going to be the same one. Yeah, they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re beagles, right? They’re, they’re, they’re hunting

Caleb Agee 44:46
a scent, right? Yep. So, yeah. So it is our job as communicators to communicate with people and understand them and then communicate with them. The way they want to be communicated with. And if, if we sit in our corner and say, this is the way I sell, this is the way I talk, this is the way I do things, with no empathy for the other party, we are missing largely, half of the population in any of these dynamics. And so what we have to do is have that empathy and move in the direction of the other person, because that’s actually what love is, is giving somebody really what they would hope to be given in communication, instead of just giving them what I want to give them. And so that’s a selfish gain, right, instead of a selfless gain. And there’s so much beauty in that when we can slide from maybe our preference, because you can do both, everyone can do both of these things. They’re just preferences. You can slide from your preference and give that other person really the reflective preference that they would want. Yes, I’m not asking you to not be yourself. I’m just asking you to show up for them.

Brandon Welch 46:03
Yeah. And, man, that is the definition of compassion. That’s the definition of good leadership. That’s the definition of an emotionally intelligent and, you know, communication intelligent person, and those are the most effective people. Yeah? Like, nobody wants to be around a polarizing, one way steamroller or, you know, reverted individualist communicator. They

Caleb Agee 46:29
make good news headlines, but that’s about that’s about it. Yeah, that’s right. I

Brandon Welch 46:34
want to give an example, because we have one of the most brilliant introvert, introvert, intuitive people that I know in this room, that’s Carter. Carter, the camera guy. He’s filling in for Nate. He’s a stunt double today. See the name, and I don’t do this enough, but when I have the you know, wit about me to go about doing this anytime we’re in a brainstorming session, and I go back to Carter, like, I’m extrovert, intuitive, and it’s like, whatever happened in the room? He’s like, cool. I don’t ask me what happened in five minutes, because it’s, it’s gone, it’s it’s in that was a high frequency processor. But when I want to go back and get the better answer, call it My Buddy Carter. And I say, What did you think about this? And he always has something that is refined and, like, it’s like, yes, processed and actually ready for action. So within this, within the 16 love you Carter, within the 16 personality types, you’re gonna if you study this, and we have a book that we’re gonna give away. It’s called The Art of speed reading, people, best book I’ve read on this. It has a cheat sheet for like, if you were this person dealing with this person, consider this like. And if you just study that and kind of put that in your scheme, like, you’ll start to see the patterns. You’ll start to go, oh, that person felt weird to me, because they’re the opposite end of me and like, here’s, there’s just some like, really, we give me a lot of the big like like cues here to do like the little hacks, if you will. But if you do that across your sales and marketing, you’re going to build more bridges to your island. The world like, not just one specific type, but the world of personalities, is going to start to see you as the common, best, most liked, most loved provider. And I have some other theories about that, but that’s going to happen for you if you do this well, so in in recap, if you’re dealing with extrovert person, keep doing your phones, keep doing your flashy presentations. Know quickly when you think you’re dealing with an introverted person, make sure you’re doing those follow up emails. It’s not a bad thing to do for everybody. Do for everybody. Yeah, follow up emails, details, processes, take your time to go through that information. Don’t be freaked out when they don’t give you an immediate buy in. Yeah, know that that’s them processing, and you’re actually on to something.

Caleb Agee 48:54
The combination of all of these is what professionalism looks like, exactly, right? That’s That’s just the truth is a written follow up email or a handwritten note speaks to an intuitive, but to an extrovert, it’s like, well, dang, they got their stuff together. Yes, right? Yes,

Brandon Welch 49:09
all the way around, yep, yep. And those sensors, extra details, intuitives, let them make their own conclusions. You master those two things and the two things we’re going to talk about next week, you are going to be an unstoppable force in getting people your island, to your business, to your cause, and it’s going to be wonderful. Hey, the first person to say, send us some feedback about this episode. We’re going to send a copy of The Art of speed reading people, which we’ve put in the comments here. You can buy it. You should definitely buy it. You should buy it for your team, and you should watch and study this thing as a team. This will make your whole organization better, this emotional intelligence. But we’re going to send you our favorite book on that. All you need to do is send an email to Maven Monday at frankon, maven.com with one comment about the episode, maybe how you’re going to use it, what you liked, or maybe you can give us. Um, like constructive criticism, especially if you’re introvert, that’s right, processed criticism. Yeah, we’ll ship you that book, and we can’t wait to do that. So we will be back here next week with the other part of how to talk to the other half of humanity, and every week talking about real life marketing questions, because marketers who can’t teach you why are just a fancy lie. Have a great week.